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道聽途說: The Leica Predicament — 2014 Outlook and Beyond

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發表於 2014-2-11 13:48:40 | 顯示全部樓層 |閱讀模式
Hi, not sure whether this has been posted & discussed here...

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139079
http://www.the.me/the-leica-predicament-2014-outlook-and-beyond/

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發表於 2014-2-11 15:10:07 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 Jason 於 2014-2-11 15:11 編輯

im entirely not surprised by that.

Leica now is in a very difficult position. first question is CCD or CMOS. CCS now clearly has supply chain issue. If CMOS, then what makes Leica M different from other mirrorless cameras?

some will say "rangefinder experience". in the past, i buy that a lot. but as resolution keeps increasing, rangefinder (which depends on a mechanical cam) cannot be very accurate. we all know this problem with noctilux. what makes it worse is: leica users tend to like fast lenses a lot. if it is a 50MP sensor, with f/1 lenses, i really don't think the mechanical rangefinder is good enough for focus accuracy.

2ndly, image quality. with the latest development of fuji, sony, sigma, the difference in terms of image quality between leica cameras and other far-cheaper cameras are increasingly small. in the old days, another selling point of leica is the glass. fuji (fujinon) has historically been making some top-notch glasses. sigma now proves itself to be a great lens maker. and sony now forms partnership with zeiss. then, one reasonable question to be ask is: how should one justify paying so much for leica camera and leica glasses?

3rdly, user experience. in the old days, leica is the no-brainer choice for street / travel photography. small, relatively light-weight, quick to use, and discreet. it still held true in the days of DSLR. but now with mirrorless, and full-frame mirrorless, this advantage becomes very small. in fact, leica now exhibits some disadvantage comparing with the new features of its competitors. e.g. focusing peaking, hybrid viewfinder, image stabilizer, and needless to say, auto-focus, plus far more sophisticated metering system. leica is like an old dinosaur.

these all make using leica more an act of passion, rather than an act of reason, which i think is totally fine from a user point of view, but it is not sustainable for a business!

even a late comer like sigma can keep surprising us with so many innovations. leica really has no one to blame but itself...
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發表於 2014-2-11 15:43:07 | 顯示全部樓層
Jason 發表於 2014-2-11 15:10
im entirely not surprised by that.

Leica now is in a very difficult position. first question is CCD ...

agree with you!

in particular,for high res sensors the mechanical rangefinder experience will likely turn into a sour experience!  Even with the MM I have to be very careful in focusing while shooting at 1.4
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發表於 2014-2-11 18:00:43 | 顯示全部樓層
Jason 發表於 2014-2-11 15:10
im entirely not surprised by that.

Leica now is in a very difficult position. first question is CCD ...

比你 一棍毆死

點評

唔會! Leica 有不死身! ! wahahahahahaha  發表於 2014-2-11 23:10
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發表於 2014-2-11 18:25:43 | 顯示全部樓層
Agree, my young friends tried the rangefinder system and found it hard to use, they are only interested to try because of its name Leica and those legendary lenses, certainly not the body
Live in the Moment
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發表於 2014-2-11 18:26:31 | 顯示全部樓層
Jason 發表於 2014-2-11 15:10
im entirely not surprised by that.

Leica now is in a very difficult position. first question is CCD ...

Thanks Jason. Very accurate and totally agree.
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發表於 2014-2-11 19:51:20 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 vincecharus 於 2014-2-11 20:27 編輯
Jason 發表於 2014-2-11 15:10
im entirely not surprised by that.

Leica now is in a very difficult position. first question is CCD ...

x 2 Jason!

I even think M240 is one step back from M9.  That's why I disposed of M240 and kept M9.

Just brainstorming some revolutionary concepts.  Does any c-hing think the following might work?

1.  Autofocus versions of M-lenses (without or without optical modifications from current generation);
2.  Dual electronic/optical finder like Fuji;
3.  Weather sealing;
4.  Detachable FF digital back/film back;
5.  Camera body + shutter;
6.  Whole package size slightly larger than M but smaller than DSLR;
7.  Backward compatibility with mechanical lenses (like M240);

Alternatively,

8.  A7-like FF mirrorless body.

Would you buy such any of the above packages?

Can you think of some other packages?
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發表於 2014-2-11 20:06:04 | 顯示全部樓層
Agree x2 Jason.
I like my M body and lens, but using 7R is really a joy in particular with fast lens... and adaptor with close up feature.
I don't know what Leica can do in future M model, but I'd love to see some revolutionary design, like they did when they invent the legendary M3.
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 樓主| 發表於 2014-2-11 20:40:53 | 顯示全部樓層
本帖最後由 Flint 於 2014-2-11 21:15 編輯

It seems many were disappointed but have to agree with the Leica's move.  

Do we expect a mirrorless Leica with AF or focus peaking but nothing more special than a NEX or Fuji X? (as the sources says Leica's going to launch a APS-C CMOS mirrorless by Sept 2014)
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發表於 2014-2-11 22:45:23 | 顯示全部樓層
不過業餘啲來說,如果比較performance 同quality, Leica system又未輸得,好似馬路行80,法拉利或大發仔都可以,最後都是睇你技術,鍾意玩乜,同埋商業角度一定唔會做一部"完美"相機,最多做一部唔用腦影相嘅相機,再比你舞到變靚相質數.

漢堡包有幾好吃幾有營養都會有人慢慢座下來食正餐
Live in the Moment
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發表於 2014-2-11 23:07:31 | 顯示全部樓層
agree X 3
As technology becoming more good, some day will be disqualify.

Btw, how is the Fuji lens ? Is that as good as leica and with AF?
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發表於 2014-2-11 23:20:06 | 顯示全部樓層
vincecharus 發表於 2014-2-11 19:51
x 2 Jason!

I even think M240 is one step back from M9.  That's why I disposed of M240 and kept M9. ...

I think, in an ideal case, Leica needs an optical viewfinder with electronic focus peaking indication.

Only this feature will make many people happy, I believe.
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發表於 2014-2-12 19:02:55 | 顯示全部樓層
Jason 發表於 2014-2-11 23:20
I think, in an ideal case, Leica needs an optical viewfinder with electronic focus peaking indicat ...

如果Leica 用全站儀/望遠鏡技術去找peak focus透過唔同鏡, 會唔會好D? Improve low light focusing 就更好
Live in the Moment
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發表於 2014-2-12 20:11:16 | 顯示全部樓層
vincecharus 發表於 2014-2-11 19:51
x 2 Jason!

I even think M240 is one step back from M9.  That's why I disposed of M240 and kept M9. ...

I always wish these two things come true one day ...

1) AF using manual lenses, like Contax AX
2) Removable sensor with battery and storage, in the shape of film rolls, for film Ms
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發表於 2014-2-12 20:24:33 | 顯示全部樓層
kgv 發表於 2014-2-12 20:11
I always wish these two things come true one day ...

1) AF using manual lenses, like Contax AX

第一點, Sony 有機會喎,我發夢都想有呀。
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發表於 2014-3-7 17:13:57 | 顯示全部樓層
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發表於 2014-3-7 17:26:54 | 顯示全部樓層
This is a Photokina year again, what do you think the new products will be launched?  

By a wild guess, I would speculate a new M360 and something about 4x5 format...
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發表於 2014-3-8 02:46:54 | 顯示全部樓層
可能大家諗多咗,最後可能Leica好冇大志咁同Panasonic合作出D Hello Kitty、Melody、叮當 Crossover去推個lower market。
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